My question to the general public is, why do so much Hawaii High School Basketball players lack so much fundamentals prior to arriving to High School? Do their PAL-youth organizations coaches ever teach them the basic skills needed to play the game of Basketball or do most of them just say hey, 2 lines layups then lets scrimmage? I'm just curious because more than half of the kids that I've seen play have been lacking a lot of fundamentals.
Hawaii High School Basketball Forum
Hawaii Hoops - Forum » High School Boys
Fundamentals
(36 posts)-
Posted 2 years ago #
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My guess is too much highlights on ESPN.
COMON MAN!!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Great point/observation monkeybizness.
My perspective is this:
A lot of kids in Hawaii are multi-sport athletes. More and more kids are playing 2-3 sports all year round.
Parents/kids who have aspirations for getting an athletic scholarship for college are pushing their kids towards football, baseball, soccer, and volleyball.
Our local girls have been successful in getting athletic scholarships in basketball, but for our local boys, it is very rare that you them get a full ride to a div 1 school. Div 2 gives athletic rides, but div 3 does not.
With the lack of height in most of our Hawaii Kids, the trend for families is to push their kids towards other sports.
Don't get me wrong, there are about 500 kids every Sunday that are working on their skills at Kalakaua and a bunch over at 808. Hats off to them!
At the high school level, the ratio of time spent on tactical versus technical is a lot different than in the youth level.
Tactical is what you work on to war game, or game plan for your opponents. Technical is geared for improving different and various skill sets. With Title IX, gym space/time often comes at a premium. Coaches, unfortunately, don't have a lot of time to spend on the "technical" aspect of the game, at the high school level.
That's my take on why there are so many kids that lack certain fundamentals in Hawaii.
In hindsight, if I could do it all over again, I would have my son play water-polo!
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've talked with a few coaches as well regarding the "lack of fundamentals".
Ed said it as pure and sweet as you could possibly say it. He touched on everything that I've heard and worded it better than I ever could.
Posted 2 years ago # -
eh ed water polo is a great sport. I actually played that sport for intramurals in college and it was frickin fun as hell. Hard but fun. Good insight on the technical and tactical aspects.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I think that you folks hit it on the nose. Really good post!!! The thing about fundamentals is that you don't need someone with great skill or a great coach to teach you these things. If you are talking about basic fundamentals such as: dribbling, shooting, passing, good defensive stance, blocking out, etc. All these skills can be practiced on your driveway or your backyard. If you have been taught the correct way to do these skills then you can now improve these skills at any time. The problem is some of the kids nowadays are more worried about dribbling the ball between their legs 5 times, around their back 3 times, and making a crazy above the head crossover before even attacking the basket, when they could have just exploded to the basket and score.
Here in Hilo, one of the biggest disadvantage is gym times. Although we have a lot of gyms we also have a lot of sports and teams that share these gyms. During our P&R season you are lucky to get 1 day a week of practice at a gym. And the league may last about a month in a half, so you might get a max of 10-15 practices with your team and players. To teach fundamentals in that period may be difficult. So, what I'm trying to say is that the kids may need to do a little extra on their own.
For the old schoolers. Remember when you use to be able to find a park full of ballers playing all day long. Not any more, you would be lucky to find one or two kids at the park shooting. Although you wern't being taught the fundamentals directly, you were doing it without even thinking about it as you played these pick up games.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@BREW Wilfred tilly said good post
Posted 2 years ago # -
@96720 you still gotta pay me back for that slush and hot dog. And you still owe five cents for dropping the bumper pool ball. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted 2 years ago # -
i dont think that basic fundamentals are being taught AND stressed enough at the age group level. most age group coaches only think about the "W" and not about teaching the kids the basic fundamentals that they need to move on to the next level.
im not knocking on age group coaches. those coaches are probably a parent who decided to step up and coach a team so that kids would have some place to play, im just saying that fundamentals should be taught and stressed more when kids first start playing basketball, not their freshman year in high school.
my question is this: camps and clinics teach more offensive than defensive skills. i understand that offense is important but if defense wins championships why isn't defense taught just as much as offense?
Posted 2 years ago # -
@ Mojo I agree. Most Age Grp teams seem to go for the win. Some may stack their roster with talented athletes and teach offense, offense, offense. When these youngsters move up, the less talented will either see the pine or quit all together. I cannot see a 12yr old or younger sitting the entire game out. Some teams go as far as teaching a "SYSTEM" in hopes that these kids will stay together for a long time.
Gone are the days of DISTRICT basketball teams. It seems like there's more and more hand picked teams. So the marginal or less talented does not get a fair shake. It's just my thought.
Posted 2 years ago # -
i feel ya OldG. i really dont like it when coaches or clubs stack their roster with talented athletes just so they can win. i mean really. what do these kids learn? winning is great and everybody wants to win but you can learn alot from a loss just as much as a win. and i couldn't agree with you more, i cannot see any player sitting out an entire game just because he's not as "talented" or "athletic" as his "stacked" teammates. teach the kids the value of sportsmanship, teamwork, build character, and make the GAME fun for the kids not the adults.
that's funny to hear that coaches are trying to recruit players at the age group level.
as far a system goes i think it might be easier to teach younger players because everyone has an assignment depending on what's going on. i also feel that it helps the not so talented players "feel" like their part of the team and not just running around.
just my humble opinion...
Posted 2 years ago # -
thanks Mojo
Posted 2 years ago # -
@ Ed & OldG,
Very very good points (interesting and very true!).
This post is "Good reading"
But what do I know, I can barely read, let alone see "where's my glasses!?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Not gonna fall for that big fella! But I see you put down 1.25 If it's +1.25 me thinks those are magnifiers good for reading. So if a ref is wearing one of those while at working a game, it won't be pretty.
Posted 2 years ago # -
+1.25 it is!
Posted 2 years ago # -
What is your definition of fundamentals?...
There is way too much old school coaches on this website...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Moving without the basketball.
Ballside-helpside.
one foot in the key in helpside don't hug your man.
screen and rolls properly
pivoting
curl cuts
back dribble against two defenders
lead had in passing lanes on defense
skip passing
ball in the air feet in the air
many more....Posted 2 years ago # -
You see you are describing fundamentals within a SYSTEM being taught by a coach...
My point is everyone has their own definition of what fundamentals need to be taught in order for their players to play in their system...
I agree with bare bones universal fundamentals that every coach teaches such as shooting, dribbling, and passing...These three universal fundamentals are obviously taught in DIFFERENT WAYS ACCORDING TO SYSTEM.
Posted 2 years ago # -
no system for me just what I had at the top of my head. I have many more stored away in my memory bank.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Being an oldschooler myself, I do agree that the Hawaii kids are loosing out on some key fundementals... NOT Blocking out to me is one of the biggest sins teams do. From a free throw, the defensive player on the inside block, will go straight towards the basket on a miss shot instead of making contact with the player next to him and boxing out. If everyone does their job, the ball should fall to the ground. More often then not, I see the ball go over their head to the offensive team, because all they do is step to the basket.
The next thing that eats me to death is giving up "baseline".. Seems like coaches think that directing them to the baseline creates a 6th player. From 30 years ago, I was taught to never ever give up baseline (mortal sin), send the guy to the middle where there is help...Letting a guy go baseline is like a free lay up...unless you have a 7' footer waiting, which isn't a real reality.
Turning your head to keep track of your player is another no no, but seen all the time. You should never turn your head, you should see the ball and your player, or at least feel the player at all times and still see the ball... teaching the kids to point to the ball and your man at all times keeps the hands up and the player aware of the what is going on...
One last one is setting a screen.. you see motion offensives that are built around screening, but nobody either sets up the player for the screen or gets in position to set the screen.. they just stand there with their hands down and expect the defensive player to run into him...What happened to standing right on the side or behind the defensive player. Of course giving the player enough room to turn.
Just a few thoughts...
Posted 2 years ago # -
P.S. I don't think any fundemental skill is part of a "system". Fundementals are tried and true, ageless...applied at all times. If all else fails, go back to the fundementals..
Posted 2 years ago # -
I agree with all of your comments Rocky, those are true and true fundamentals that if doen collectivelty as a team, can beat anybody, anytime, anyplace...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Really good points Rocky!!! You obviously see the importance of fundamentals!!!!
Mahalo
Posted 2 years ago # -
I think that all of the respected coaches and or friends of coaches on here come together in a colloborated effort and formulate a clinic and share each others points of emphasis that needs to be addressed at all age levels. I also believe that if you are a coach in any league from P.A.L to District park leagues to NJB and even High School be mandated to attend a mandatory Coaches Clinic so we can definitely address the needs of all our keiki. So that they can have a great future in Basketball.
Posted 2 years ago # -
This is what I found: a basic principle, rule, law, or the like, that serves as the groundwork of a system;
That being said, fundamentals are relative. For example, many coaches here teach help-side defense. The help should be somewhere in the key based on their ability to help yet be able to recover on a skip or so forth.
However, many mainland teams don't stress as much help-side since they want their man to stick with their man much tighter and they also expect the defender to keep their man infront of them and stop dribble penetration without as much help.
So, we can say that many of the fundamentals listed here are differenet based on the philosophy and system being implemeted.
Posted 2 years ago #
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