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Legit BIIF East Division POY finalists

  (31 posts)

  1. Hi-Low
    Member

    It's interesting how some bloggers get into some of these debates without ever having seen the player play more than a game or two, and then make statements that are not backed up by facts.

    I've seen all the top players mentioned as the East Division Player of the Year candidates. But if you've really watched most of the games and saw the top players play multiple times, there are only three players that should be in the POY discussion.

    They are:

    -- Jacob Andrade, St. Joseph. The league's top scorer and a strong defensive player, much underrated and who averages four steals and six rebounds per game, that's more rebounds than Hilo's 6-foot-4 Dakota Allen averages per game. Andrade plays on the back of St. Joseph's zone and often outbattles taller opponents for rebounds.

    His quickness and physical strength on defense are great assets, and he always plays hard. It's a bogus argument to claim that he doesn't play defense, he does, just ask coach Scanlan-Leite.

    Most of the bloggers who rip Andrade point to his attitude or say he can't do this or that. But in reality almost every coach in the league would want him on their team. Plus, if you ask his St. Joseph teammates if he's "wanted on that team," every one would say "yes." They understand what he brings to the table every game and he's been the difference in several games this year, something few players can match.

    In my opinion, Andrade is the overwhelming choice for East POY, with the following two players earning some consideration.

    -- Richie Handy, Keaau. The league's most versatile player who can play any position. Like Andrade, he plays hard all the time. He's an excellent scorer, rebounder and defender. And if Keaau would have made a strong run in the BIIF playoffs, he might have been closer to Andrade for the top honor.

    Richie is a great kid, too, and when the BIIF coaches vote, he'll get his votes ... maybe enough to win it.

    -- Chris Mattos, Waiakea. He was Waiakea's most important player throughout the season with Matt Libao in second. Mattos did the dirty work inside, rebounding and defense, and scored when the team needed it.

    During the BIIF season and up until the final, Mattos was still in the POY hunt. But with Hilo winning the BIIF title, that hurt his shot at the award.

    Based on coaches voting in the past, it's very political and Handy will probably win the POY honor because he's a good player and has a good attitude. That's not the same way that Andrade and Mattos are perceived by some coaches and fans, and usually you either like their in-your-face style of play or you don't.

    But if you really picked the East POY on the facts and stats and didn't hold some personal grudge against him, Andrade would be the clear-cut award winner.

    ... just my three cents.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  2. bibbyboi
    Member

    Hey get that logical analysis stuff out of here....don't you know this is hawaiihoopsdotcom???? That kind of stuff is highly frowned upon here...lol...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  3. brew
    Member

    HI-Low great post and I think you have the 3 guys who were the most consistent throughout the year. If coaches hold a grudge, then thats just wrong. Andrade plays with a lot of passion and intensity, and if he deserves it because of his play he should get it. Coaches should just look at his body of work and make their choice based on that. He did get into some intense moments but thats because he plays the game really hard and intense. Coaches I hope you make the right choice based on play, not based on personal feelings.

    But, if Handy or Mattos gets it I wouldn't throw a fit!!!!!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  4. Hi-Low
    Member

    Brew @ bibbyboi -- That's all I'm saying, just be fair and look at what they accomplished without trying to bring along any other garbage that doesn't belong.

    I hope each coach votes fairly and for the guy they really believes deserves it. And like you, brew, I could accept any one of those three getting the award.

    Thanks for your input. Both of you, as former point guards, are still making some great passes -- but it's hoops knowledge and not to a teammate for an easy basket.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  5. Socrates
    Member

    ....Hi-low, ..i not so sure if only accomplishments is a fair judge for POY honors.. you gotta factor in a little bit, sportsmanship, humulity, and attitude...

    ....but maybe not.. just go with the stats and the games won is another way--however, i think deep down the coaches going go with their gut.. the players name that makes them feel good-- the player they admire.. might be any of the 3 you mentioned above..

    .. yet i still think Shintani cause that's what my gut telling me.. i might be way off however.. we'll see..

    Posted 2 years ago #
  6. Hi-Low
    Member

    Socrates -- thanks for your remarks. I totally agree that attitude and sportsmanship play an important role along with what the player did on the floor. But if you look at the three I mentioned, all play extremely hard and Handy, with his more laid-back attitude, doesn't express his emotions. I think that's more how he was brought up, like many local players. Andrade and Mattos wear their emotions on their sleeves. But they really compete hard and have been impact players for their successful teams. I think both Andrade and Mattos made tremendous strides this year in trying to be leaders, and except for an incident by each one, they had very good seasons. I also like Mitchel Shintani and felt no one in the BIIF played better than him in the playoffs. However, the entire Hilo team struggled for most of the year and Mitchel was off and on early on. Scotty Wong came off the bench and was a factor in some games, but he did not have the impact of the three I mentioned. The Hilo coaches wanted Scotty to play better defense and that's why they started Kainoa and Chan over Scotty. Don't get me wrong, Scotty is good, but he was one of five or six Hilo players that helped them win the BIIF title. Next year, with Scotty stepping up and playing most of the game, he could be awesome and win the POY award. If your gut is still churning, try Pepto Bismol.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  7. bibbyboi
    Member

    If Andrade doesn't get it I'm definitely throwing a fit!!!! Also if Bautista doesn't get it in the west I'm throwing a fit..lol...Or drinking a couple 40's at least...lol...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  8. Hi-Low
    Member

    bibbyboi -- There were only two West POY candidates in Kohala's Brandon Bautista and Kealakehe's Thomas Naehu. But with Brandon already winning the last two D-II POY awards and turning in another good season, I'll use your term .. he's a "shoe in" for the West honor. He deserves it.

    P.S. wow, it's late. I've got to work in the morning, time to count the basketballs swishing through the net for the next six or so hours. zzzzzzzzzzz.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  9. bibbyboi
    Member

    As much as i like Naehu's game i can't find any reason to put him above Bautista...Same with Vallente....Not even really sure if he was Honoka'a's best player though...But he definitely had the potential to be a POY type player...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  10. Hi-Low
    Member

    Okay, bibbyboi, before I sleep .. who should be the East and West Coaches of the Year?

    My picks:
    East: St. Joe's Harry "Knows Best" Scanlan-Leite, for leading a disciplined team to the D-II title and beating so many D-I teams, including D-I champion Hilo twice.

    West: Kohala's Don Fernandez, for bringing along a young team and beating all the competition in the West. Forget the loss to Pahoa, a better block out on that second-to-the-last Dagger shot and Kohala would have pulled it out. His team just didn't execute in the final four minutes, after leading by nine points.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  11. bibbyboi
    Member

    Those would be my choices. It's usually the best team's coach wins it....This year i think it's even more so the coaching because if you look at both those teams they weren't the most athletic or deepest...But both found ways to win...IMO Kohala was extremely shallow this season...Which gives me even more of a reason for Bautista to be the wests POY...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  12. Shaka6
    Member

    @Hi-Low

    Almost totally agreed with you in this post you started. Except for hilo winning the BIIF Title and that could of hurt Mattos chance for POY. Just curious of your thaughts why is that?...
    ...I ask only because lastyear and this is a perfect example; waiakea & kea'au don't know if you were aware how much times these 2 teams had meet but they faced each other 6 times counting pre-season, regular season, playoffs & league title. Waiakea won kea'au those 6 times and won the league title including Mattos having a tramendous all around stats record & lastyear with the best attitude (no outbursts during that season), But the player & coach of the year went to kae'au and they were the runner up team as to waiakea being the runner up to hilo this year.

    So again is it just coaches voting for whom they like personally and not looking at the overall picture of a POY?

    Posted 2 years ago #
  13. Shaka6
    Member

    I think these 3 candidates Mattos, Andrade & Handy is the best/top selections for POY, If any one of these players is selected it was well deserved. But then again it will depend on coaches votes and hope it's all in fair and not making it personal.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  14. brew
    Member

    Shaka6, not according to bibbyboi its Andrades award, Mattos and Handy should not even be considered.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  15. Luna86
    Member

    C'mon guys Handy and Mattos have "no chance"...andrade is a lock!!!!! As Luna "coughs" ~~~according to bibbyboi~~~~

    Posted 2 years ago #
  16. bibbyboi
    Member

    You guys can make fun of me all you want but if anyone else had the year Andrade did you guys would say they were a lock...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  17. Luna86
    Member

    Wait now, I think someone else brought up a point to at least consider looking at,....Andrade didn't play the entire season. Besides the Technicals / kicked out of game / suspension. (I gotta admit, that hurts)

    But I'd say this, if he wins it (POY)...I would not argue it! He played well enough to deserve it! But so did others.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  18. bibbyboi
    Member

    Ask someone at the game if he deserved to get kicked out for what he did...Neither kid that got kicked out deserved it...

    If you're going to hold that against Andrade then you must also hold it against Mattos, who from what i've been told was much worse...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  19. bigisle
    Member

    What ever happened to the BIIF just having one ALL-BIIF team like before? Why should the East/West split or two divisions create two sets of All League teams?

    All-BIIF Team:

    POY - Jacob Andrade
    COY - Pahoa
    G - Bautista
    G - Shintani
    F - Naehu
    F - Handy
    C - Mattos

    Posted 2 years ago #
  20. brew
    Member

    @bibbyboi we are not making fun of you. I respect and admire that you are so adament(? on the spelling) about Jacob winning the POY. He is probably the top candidate, but all we are saying is that other players should be considered because of their accomplishments.

    Don't get upset this is just a question. Do you think Handy or Mattos would avg. 20+ if they shot as much times as Andrade? I'm not saying he shot the ball too much or forced shots because he didn't, he played within the system and did what the coaches asked of him, which was score. But because you are basing a bunch of your arguments on his stat line, I'm just wondering if Mattos and Handy could do the same thing if given the same opportunity by their coaches or is Andrade just that much better at scoring then Mattos and Handy.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  21. Luna86
    Member

    @ bibbyboi,

    It doesn't matter how, when and why now. It happened and it is on record. Can't dis-credit it now bro. Blame the refs on the calls ~ it happened.
    ...and like i said, i'm not sure if it will be held against them but it hurts either way.

    Your just being toooo much of a "hard-ball" regarding Andrade is the winner "a lock!"

    If he wins, he is deserving...if he doesn't, Mattos, Handy and the rest of the others mentioned would be deserving as well...there's always gonna be different opinions on why this player did or did not win it..but hey, it's not a lock bro..sorry.

    @brew,

    I'd say this...honestly, regarding his total shots taken, if J. Andrade played for Kamehameha (system offense), he wouldn't get as many shots but, that wouldn't automatically dis-credit him from POY. So in this case we can't just go by stats (although it plays a big part). Wouldn't you agree?
    ..and yes, Andrade did play within the offense at St. Joe, I agree!

    Posted 2 years ago #
  22. Hi-Low
    Member

    No matter what is said, the voting will be based on what each coach thinks and personally "feels" about the POY candidates. If they like how he played and not his aggressive style or perceived questionable attitude, they won't vote for the guy.

    Shaka6, last year was the perfect example when Mtume was picked POY of the year over Chris Mattos, who should have been the POY. Mtume was the "safe" pick and the perception of Mattos as a "bad-attitude guy" -- whether true or not, hurt him.

    You should know exactly what I'm talking about. As a current Waiakea assistant coach, you have always brought up good things about Mattos on the Hawaii Hoops forum. But you also understand what he faces from the other coaches/players/fans. Chris has had two good years on the court and deserves more recognition. But the respect needs to come from those other coaches with the POY votes.

    I also think that some coaches favor the POY off the championship team. That's how it goes 90 percent of the time with an occasional surprise. This year, I'll be stunned if anyone outside of Andrade, Handy or Mattos wins. But I've been wrong before and it's on the BIIF coaches who vote, not me, brew or the enthusiastic bibbyboi.

    Like I said in a previous post, IMO, Jacob Andrade should be the Player of the Year. But I believe Andrade and Mattos will be left out and Richie Handy will win. It's too bad, but both Andrade and Mattos had outstanding seasons, just like Handy.

    To whomever wins, congratulations and good luck to all the teams in the state tournament.

    Shaka6, good luck at the states -- go get 'em Waiakea.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  23. bibbyboi
    Member

    @Brew, what i'm saying is that they didn't so what is the point of what ifs? We'll never know for sure..See why I'm arguing so much....Not enough objectivity....

    @Luna86, I know it happened but it seems to be too weighed too heavily on Andrade...

    My thing is the person who had the best season is the only one deserving of the award...that's what the award is for...Andrade had the best season, thus he should win the award...

    Posted 2 years ago #
  24. StJoeBoy
    Member

    @brew @bibbyboy
    honestly, they wouldn't because andrade is a much better shooter.
    those kids would probably get yanked if they took that many shots because they wouldn't go it....

    @Luna86
    unfortunately he isn't a lock (cause i think he should be), especially if the coaches opinions reflect those of the people posting on this forum.

    Posted 2 years ago #
  25. Luna86
    Member

    @ bibbyboi,

    All I said was "it was mentioned" on an earlier post by someone (kick out/susp/tech.)...I personally don't think its weighed to heavy..but like I said, i'm not sure what the coaches are or would think about it? Thats all bro...but you can't say "it doesn't hurt".

    I respect your opinion and your strong advocacy on your lock down winner bro (andrade) Good luck...no pun intended. Really, who ever wins it "i will have an opinion, but I think it will be deserving not matter who it is!

    Posted 2 years ago #

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