I know it's not easy to be a ref. I'm a believer that ref's should let players play. But on the other hand, they need to make sure physicality of the game doesn't go too far. Tonight I watched a very physical game between the Raiders and Maryknoll. I'm biased so I won't say one team was more physical than the other, I'll only say that the ref's should have called a lot more fouls both ways. When you just let it go, the players emotions can build until something unfortunate happens. One of our kids went down with a knee injury. No fault of anyone, just an unfortunate accident in a physical game. However, in the 4th quarter of tonights game one of our players took an unscheduled flight across the court. I don't blame the Maryknoll player who launched him, I blame the ref's. Their failure to call fouls led to a building of emotions that you could feel from the stands. Both teams played tough and we came out on top. The players are big, but lets not forget they are still kids. Ref's must remember that. Someone could get hurt....
Hawaii High School Basketball Forum
Hawaii Hoops - Forum » High School Boys
Someone could get hurt
(23 posts)-
Posted 2 years ago #
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I agree! At one game a player had another player by the face! He could've snapped that boys neck! but did the ref call it? NO! I often see the boys pushing back and forth, holding, mouthing off at each other but the refs don't do anything about it. Yes, the refs NEED to call the fouls both ways!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yeah- the Iolani - Maryknoll game had 2 of the same referees- two of the worst that officaited the game before- Maryknoll II vs Kamehameha II. Maryknoll II was getting manhandled by Kam II and yet they got called for over 35 fouls compared to Kam Ii with less than 15. John Tom and the Filipino red haired bolo referee are lousy and the Kam II coach thought Maryknoll II was getting to "Rough" and he was telling the refe's he would sned his football players back in (the one s from the football team). I had hoe he would so someone like David Stant would get hurt or something.
I don't understand because I've noticed that they warn certain players about playing rough but don't call anything. If someone gets hurt- they should sue the referees.
Posted 2 years ago # -
How's the pic of the ST. Louis kid hitting Malik right across the face. I wonder if the refs even called that a foul?
http://www.starbulletin.com/sports/20100124_punahou_runs_away_from_saint_louis.html
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yeah a foul was called but what really happened is the defender went for the block and did get ball. What you see in the picture is the aftermath. There was no dirty play in this game just a good hard fought battle by both sides. The Puns just wore down the Saints in the 2nd half.
Posted 2 years ago # -
unfortunately in the BIIF, we have the opposite of rough play as a problem. It seems that every time a defender lays a finger on an offensive player you hear a whistle. It really disrupts the flow of the game.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Just4fun -- Are u telling me that we shouldn't believe what we see in the picture (the ball is still in his hand) and instead believe your perception? Yeah, right. I was at the game too.
And what about the play when the same kid ran him into the curtain? That's not dirty? Plus, this is a kid who has had his fair share of techs and ejections.Posted 2 years ago # -
I missed the Punahou game that you folks are talking about. Where can this picture be viewed? Is it online? Who is the St Louis kid that you folks are talking about?
Posted 2 years ago # -
to rdr: i agree to a cetain extent..the coaches should keep their players in check..the maryknoll coach should have taken out the player and benched him for the rest of the game instead he kept him in the game...there was not even a shake of hands..what are we teaching the players???
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Punahou12,did I ask you to believe my perception? I was just stating my opinion because like you, I was at the game too. BTW you stated, this kid had his share of techs and ejections. Really? I didn't know that. Was it this season, please explain.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@twocents, I think you may be talking about a different game. We played at Maryknoll last night. It wasn't possible for the Maryknoll coach to keep the player in because he fouled out when this all happened. When he fouled out he went to our bench and gave five to all of our players and coaches. After the game there was the customary hand shakes between teams. As I stated earlier, I don't want to say one team was more physical than another. On our side, I have to be fair and admit that our boys were all over their post players. Especially their biggest guy (Mayor?). My point is that as the refs continued to fail to call fouls both ways, these "TEENAGERS" tempers were bound to flare. I believe both coaches were trying to get the refs to do their job. I am still convinced that it was the ref's fault. If things don't change - someone is going to get hurt.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I attended the Maryknoll I vs Iolani I game yesterday. I got there a little early and had a chance to see the second half of the Maryknoll II vs Kamehameha II game. The game was very physical on both sides of the ball. I checked with the scorekeeper after the game and there were 60+ foul called and I believe that there were at least 2 Maryknoll players that fouled out of the game. Also I was told that there were over 70 free throws taken.
Two post above, rdr and bballer4eva, were you watching the same game? How many games in your lifetime did you attend where there were 60+ fouls and over 70 free throws taken? So are both of you saying that the officials should have called a lot more fouls?
And bballer4eva, are you Coach John, Maryknoll’s Ast. Boys Varsity II Basketball Coach. If you are you should file a grievance with the ILH office. Get a copy of the game from you parents and present your evidence to the league office. Video will definitely tell the whole story. Just make sure that the video supports your take on the game. Using this post to view your opinion is not in good taste and I don’t think that your AD would approve.
Anyways, this is my take on the two games at Maryknoll last night. Kamehameha II and Iolani I was superior in talent. Both teams are solid at all positions and most importantly they both have benches – both teams were able to use a platoon system. Both games were physical and the officials did a good job of allowing the guys to play. Maryknoll appeared to feel that they needed to be physical in both games in order to stay with their opponents. As the final score indicates, their strategy (game plan) did not work.
At the varsity level the officials should not determine the outcome of games. They are basically the caretakers of the rules of the game. The kids are so skilled now-a-days that the officials should only need to manage. The players and coaches will dictate the tempo of the game. Unless you have been an official you don’t realize their limited role in a game. I was an official a few years ago and I can tell you from experience that 60+ fouls in a game is a game that the players did not adjust to the officials’ calls or that the officials were overcalling or dictating the flow of the game. What do you think happened last night?
I want the two posters’s to think about what they wrote. Who is to blame about the physicality of all four teams? The coaches, the players, the officials, the scorekeeper, the gym manager, etc. It always seems that when people are looking to blame someone they seem to always look towards the officials first. Maybe we need to all sometime look in the mirror.
Just one spectator’s opinion.
Posted 2 years ago # -
bballer4eva: "I had hoe he would so someone like David Stant would get hurt or something."
How can anyone in their right mind say something like this? To wish someone would get hurt??? Are you freakin' sick?
I was at that game and just like afriend stated, it was physical both ways. If you're gonna complain about the number of fouls your team got called for, maybe you should instill a little discipline on your team. Maryknoll II was fouling from the start and Kamehameha II is not a team that is going to back down. Here's an idea: If you don't like the 35 fouls your team got called for, then maybe you should stop fouling....
Posted 2 years ago # -
to rdr: he did not foul out at that time...he fouled out later...disciple..disciple...teach our young boys...being a teenager is no excuse for bad behavior
Posted 2 years ago # -
@ afriend, I did not attend the earlier DII game. I respect your opinion and especially your experience as a former official. I think the foul numbers you mentioned were probably for the DII game. Is that correct? For our game it was apparent to me that both benches were trying to get the refs to make calls, without success. I can't say for a fact, but it seemed that our focus was to try to shut down the Maryknoll post players. A solid strategy since they are lacking in the guard dept. But the boys, eager to do a job, will do it to the best of their ability. If the refs don't clearly define limits, then there will be problems. But much respect to you friend.
@twocents, I was there. The player did indeed foul out when the incident occurred. There was about 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Our player took 4 technical foul free throws, then the Maryknoll boy went to our bench to give 5 to our guys before retiring to the Maryknoll bench.
Posted 2 years ago # -
To rdr, after the game I checked with the scorekeeper regarding the situation that you mentioned above. The individual that you are speaking about was assessed his 4th foul just prior to receiving his 5th foul (technical) for tossing the Iolani player. Iolani did not take four technical fouls shots. They had a one-and-one and then shot the two shot technical foul. They also received the ball at half court after the free throws due to the technical foul.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@ afriend, thank you for the clarification. I thought it was 4 tech shots because the refs cleared all players from the court while our guy shot 4. If one of them was a one-and-one then the refs screwed up.
I'm still not willing to place blame with any player. That includes the kid from Maryknoll. When he played man-on-man against Gabe there was obvious mutual respect. Great competition. When Gabe dunked on another Maryknoll kid off a fast break there was no problem following that either. In my humble opinion, the problem grew as the refs let the fouls go. Kainoa C. took some fouls from the Maryknoll kids that were just too obvious. Maryknoll post players were getting an equal beating from our guys. Just my view as a fan.Posted 2 years ago # -
To rdr, I know that you are a young and intelligent student at Iolani School. Your statement above that you made, "Just my view as a fan” is correct. Based on what you are writing it does seem that you are just a fan of the game and may not truly understand the rules of the game.
First off, the officials did not "screw up" when Iolani shot four consecutive free throws. In high school if there are multiple shooting fouls and two of these shots happen to be due to a technical foul then no one will occupy the lane line when these shots are taken. The officials did handle the situation properly.
As a fan, sitting on top of the bleachers, you don't have the same view point as the officials on the court. The only way that you will really see what the officials see on the court is to become one. I can guarantee that if you become an official you will have a different opinion of the guys working the game on the court.
Basketball is also the most physical sport around. You have guy physically challenging each other without wearing any type of guard or padding for protection. On every drive to the basket or rebound under the basket there will always be contact. How much contact will be allowed before a foul is called will and should be determined by the officiating crew. All coaches can ask for is consistency on both ends of the floor.
Finally to solely blame the officials for the physicality of the game is unrealistic. In a varsity high school game there are three officials, 20+ players and a hand full of coaches. Everyone has a part, some more that others, in the final makeup of the game.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@afriend, Well said. I cannot really argue with anything that you said. I yeild to your experience on this one. Mahalo.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I was at the game also. What I saw was Maryknoll getting very frustrated, I would too, if I kept getting the snot knocked out of me everygame... I did see some extra-ciricular in the second half, pushing and shoving down low, mostly by the Maryknoll team. Again, they were frustrated. At that point and time, good refs would have called a time out, settle everyone down and told the players to play basketball. I have been a ref before and I have seen other refs get attitudes, like the tall ref did at the game. Again, the refs did not control the game as needed in the second half and things escalated. But from what I saw, the two players were tied up and the refs did call a foul on the Maryknoll players and then in a split second, the Maryknoll player decided to give an extra push. The Iolani player stood his ground but did not retaliate. The player was accessed a personal foul and then a technical foul. That was another opportunity for the refs to talk to the teams, but they didn't.. If the player didn't have 5 fouls, there would be no reason to kick him out..The coaches also have a part to play as well. As it was mentioned, basketball is a contact sport. Those of you who have played and still play know that tempers flare, but then it is over.. At least that is what the coaches should teach. So I don't blame the player or players as much as the refs and coaches...but they are need to take some resposibility.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Rocky, thanks for your input. This was the only Maryknoll game I've attended this year so I'm not sure about them "getting their snot knocked out" every game as you said. They don't have our guards so it seemed hard for them to really compete.
I would also like to mention that their new gym was really beautiful. The acoustics were awesome because it really complemented the cheering from the crowd.
Posted 2 years ago # -
True, the gym is really nice.... what I meant was that they kept loosing badly. Loosing can take a toll on a team.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@Rocky, oh ok. I understand now. Yeah, in a way they're like Mid Pac. Both have some talent but just need a little more to pull it together and be great. If Mid Pac can get their act together they'll compete. If Maryknoll can get some guards to go along with their post players they'll be a real threat too. For us, we're there, we've just had some bad breaks.
Posted 2 years ago #
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